Do Sadists and Masochists naturally go together?

a conversation taken from one of my favorite sites....FetLife. What's your opinion?

colosunshinegirl: started this discussion
In a thread yesterday, a response back to me caught me off guard, and made me question some basic assumptions I had made regarding the Sadist and Masochist interaction.
The statement was: Sadists don't like playing with Masochists, they would prefer the person they play with not be a Masochist, since a Masochist enjoys pain. A true Sadist prefers a person who does not like pain, that it gives them a bigger thrill to hurt someone who does not like pain.
So - to all you Sadists out there? Do you have a preference? Does it make a difference to you? and to you Masochists a separate question - While maybe we all agree that a Masochist needs pain, do you equate the pain you receive with pleasure or is pain something you need to experience to find release, redemption, etc.
For example - I don't equate pain with pleasure. I endure the pain, I live for the sting and bite of the whip and paddle, but I don't "enjoy" it. I've not bothered to analyze if I'm trying to punish myself, or if I'm trying to rid my psyche of some prior wrong, I only know that I need the pain. That my Sadist Dom loves to hurt me is just an added benefit.




DragonHunter responded:
I think that I prefer a masochist because it is mutual pleasure and consensual.
I understand it is more fun to torture someone that is not enjoying it but most masochists should know that the play of not enjoying it heightens the experience for the Sadistic.
I would not enjoy it if someone were not showing any sign of pain at all.

Itami responded:
masochist: "hurt me!"
sadist: "no."

colosunshinegirl responded:
@Itami - you made me really smile for the first time today, thank you very much!

pet2serve responded 1 day ago:
Well pain for me is both, a emotional and physical release. Sometimes I can get to the pleasure point, and sometimes not. It depends on toys used, where my head is at that day etc. After I have really intense pain, I am calmer, more at ease in my daily life for a long period of time before my body "needs" it...but it is not always orgasmic.

hps_sterling responded:
In my ideal world, I would meet someone who would beg me to punish them until I was done and then scream, wail, and cry the whole time. They are not a masochist.
I play with masochists because they can often take a much greater amount and duration of pain. I usually can play harder faster too.

SirMarksALot responded:
Perhaps there is a pun here regarding "like". I doubt that a really painful experience is TOTALLY wonderful even to a pain slut. But aspects of it might be, or the feeling afterwards might be.
I think of it kind of like a long-distance run. The endorphins are nice, but the muscle pain and chest pain are not always intrinsically wonderful, at least in the moment. But the soreness the next day is really nice. You feel as if you've really USED the machine that was given to you at birth.
For me, the thrill is in making a girl suffer, watching her lose control, composure, dignity, and end up struggling and crying and begging and pleading for the thing to stop. If, afterwards, we both cuddle and she thanks me for taking her there, then she "liked" it, even if, in the moment, she hated it.
Confusing? Yes. Contradictory? Yes. Have I found a girl who can do this with/for me? Not in a long while, and even she was not able to endure this in a long term relationship. Are the things that I desire in a partner attainable, realistic? I have no idea.
But I am not sure that "like" is a simple as you originally stated.

Leatherist responded:
If someone enjoys suffering too much, I probably will not. A service top and a masochist are probably a better combination over all.

colosunshinegirl responded:
@SirMarksALot - you very eloquently described how I interact with my Dom. At times I hate what he is doing, I cry, I cringe, I try to shield my body at times, sometimes I want to throw up, and then the bastard throws in a little tenderness, a little softness, playing my body like a fine instrument, only to turn on a dime and cause me excruciating pain. In the end I love him more than when we started, and looking back I like what he did.

Bane responded:
In my ideal fantasy a girl who is not a masochist submits to me for hard masochistic play. Consent is agreed upon beforehand, with a 'limits but no safeword' arrangement.
If she agreed....
Damn, that would be hot.
But it really is just a fantasy, and would never, ever happen in a situation where I wouldn't question their mental capabilities.

Leatherist responded:
There are submissive women who have a love hate thing with pain and degredation.They get off on taking it in service-or just taking it for the fact that it DOES feel like non consent to them-paradoxically-they consent-how strange is that to the uninformed? Are they a little crazy?
I dunno,maybe fun would be a better word. If I don't have to sleep with one eye open after the fact-it's all good.

sweetmagic responded:
@SirMarksALot - for confusing and contradictory that really did make a lot of sense.

MasterDoug responded:
If you look at some of the pictures others have posted of my work, you would see that I definately qualify as a sadist. However, I enjoy playing with masochists as well as girl who accept pain as a service. Both of them react, in different ways, but reaction is what I'm looking for. I am the cat and they are the mouse. I doubt that every mouse reacts the same to being attacked, but the cat always enjoys playing with the mouse. Only when its finally dead, does the cat walk away, or leave it on your pillow to show you how much fun he had.
I enjoy that the girl enjoyed the pain, or I can enjoy that she just survived it for my pleasure, which gives her satisfaction. It is not legal in our society to torture someone who is not doing it consentually. We deem those people to be "sick", and rightly so.
Being a sadist or a masochist is no longer deemed to be an illness, as it once was. The Marque gave it a bad name, its up to us to show that we can be such and still function to bring pleasure to ourselves and others.
You might ask, would I ever torture someone or hold them without their permission? In my dreams, yes, but never in reallity. I value my freedom too much to bring that fantasy to fruition.

SammiSui responded:
Pain for me usually equals pleasure. But it also depends on my mood and what is being done to me.

jayet responded:
well lets face it don't opposites attract

FatalSynn responded:
Yes but kidnap or torture role play can definitely be a reality.

Larabys_Lair responded:
My slavegirl angel is not a 'pain is pleasure' slave. She will tell me pain is pain and it hurts. Does it make her orgasm sometimes? Yes. I don't know how or why, but it does. The more pain, the more likely she will cum for me.
On the other hand, I have played with some bottom who were so stoic about what was happening to them, I thought they might well fall asleep with my bullwhip shredding their flesh to strips. It did nothing to turn me on.
So, on the whole, I'd prefer a non-masochistic bottom. They feed that thing (beast) within me that hungers for their reaction.
Call me LL

girlserveshim responded:
Sometimes I feel guilty going into subspace for this very reason.
I guess (and I've been told) that you have to trust that the sadist is getting what they want from the scene. Or else they wouldn't be there.

Hit-n-Run responded:
This comes up often, the question of suitability of a maso as a partner for a sadist. I know some who do identify as maso or painsluts, and for the most part though they seek the pain, it is not always enjoyable in itself. Therefore, the sadist still enjoys inflicting his evil will on the maso, even though she asks for or desires it. I think the people who actually experience pain as pleasure are few and rare, and are wired differently. @ Bane - Why only fantasy and why question her mental stability? I myself identify as sub/slave, and don't consider myself at a maso or pain bottom, yet I am powerfully attracted to sadists. Not necessarily WHAT they do, but the fact that they want or need to do them. That it is who they are. Turns me on something fierce, so naturally, to be able to play with those who attract me, I must endure some discomfort;) I have put myself in just the situation you described. With my first Dom/sadist. We had a no limits no safeword agreement during two days of incarceration. I asked for it not because I am a maso, but because I wanted to be witness to, and get off on his unmasked sadist. It went well, I would do it again, and I am not remotely unhinged. (Says me;)

theMasterBaiter responded:
There are sadists and then there are sadists. In my mind, there are true sadists and there are hateful sadistic bastards, but I'm sure they will tell you that there are wannabe wimp sadists and then the true sadists... There should be two different words.
I would never want to hurt anyone who doesn't want to be hurt, except perhaps if we hope they can be taught to enjoy pain. If that makes me less than a true sadist, then I'm happy to take that label. On the other hand, if a masochist needs to be beaten to within a bloody inch of permanent damage, I would be more than happy to oblige.
It just doesn't make any sense at all to me to do things with other people that they don't want to do. All that is going to get you is a bad reputation, one time partners who never return, and quite possibly a trip to jail.

SeeingRed responded:
For me, I love to see someone push through the pain, accept it, and love it for what it is. When you really think about it, pain is the body's natural response to afflition and injury, and for someone to take all that I can give and truly take something away from it, it's pushing beyond the norm of what a person should do. I don't know if I could find those qualities in a person that wasn't a masochist.

MzSally responded:
I prefer playing with masochists because I like to give physical pleasure. I don't play with boys who say "I'll take it from you, mistress, but only to please you" or something like that. It may indeed please them to please me, but I get off on knowing my skills are appreciated and adored, not simply endured.

ginny81265 responded:
i define myself as a masochist, however i dont consider the pain to be pleasurable per se...it hurts, i cry, whimper, etc...i try to be stoic and endure...i take it because it pleases my partner to hurt me and his cruelty makes me respect him and it also reinforces my place beneath him...i also jokingly say "i always considered myself a masochist, that is before i met a true sadist" LOL
@Seeingred i agree with what you say about pushing through the pain, accepting it, processing it and also being pushed to take more...it's a journey and i think that perhaps as a masochist i feel like a warrior in some respects, the more i can take , the stronger i feel and the more enpowering it is on one hand...and yet it's also the physical strength and violence that make me feel vulnerable and submissive on the other hand...very complex emotions are tied into pain for me

TalaBrandeis responded:
I only play with folks who want to be hurt physically, those who enjoy pain. Anyone else is working submission into the mix and that's different in my book. I appreciate those who take responsibility for their actions in ways that let me know their physical needs and limits. All else are mind games and there's plenty enough of that dross in most relationships to last multiple lifetimes.
When it comes to being a sadist I want to enjoy the pleasure of another adult who's fully aware. Therapy in S/M play seems strange to me. Most folks who know me would tell you I'm simple like that...
For those who push mind games, one can still express violence with folks who push too hard; but - the ferocity of the reciprocity is often seen as abuse; even if it fulfills an implicit requirement...

Spiderspell responded:
I like both types. I like masochists because in my experience they can usually take more pain than someone who isn't one. I like non-masochists because if they are not enjoying the pain then it's a very nice submission for my pleasure which makes me melt and appreciate the slave even more.

Itami responded:
My sadistic side doesn't care weather or not someone enjoys the pain (mental or physical). Like Spiderspell, I enjoy both. Masochists generally have higher tolerances, which lets me unleash a bit, and the fact they get pleasure from the pain means I get to give both at the same time (being a sadist doesn't mean that you can't enjoy giving pleasure too). Non-masochists I love, because they tend to suffer so well, and it really gets me going to see someone suffering from what I'm doing to them.

Leatherist responded:
I sort of like the ones that tell me what a jerk I am-all the time...for teasing the hell out of them and messing with thier poor little minds. But seem to keep coming back with slippery thighs in spite of all that. ;-)

MasterAnton53 responded:
@MzSally : I totally agree. It's true that a pure sadist would ideally prefer somebody who just hates to be hurt (both physically and emotionally) but BDSM sadists are a bit different from that... My greatest put off is exactly a girl who accondiscend graciously, saying to me she's bearing the pain for my sake; while the thing that gives me the highest thrill is seeing one that reaches her own climax thanks to the pain I'm inflicting to her. Luckily, today there are quite a few of women like that.

Surly_Monk responded:
@MzSally and @MasterAntone53: I agree with you both. I put a lot of effort and time perfecting my techiniques, skills and abilities. I put a lot of thought and creativity in creating the most conducive atmosphere or ambience for the scene or activities my partner and I indulge in. Nothing pleases me more than seeing and knowing that the pain I am creating, combined with the atmosphere, is making a woman/sub/masochist happy.

ClubMasterKurt responded:
Where is the pleasure if I see that who I have in front does not enjoye pain? Such a situation does make me stop and start talking to her and find out why she does not enjoy. I do not throw my whip for the sake of creating pain, but for the reaction it causes.

jangauss responded:
For me, the pain really is pleasure. There's stress release, and all that, but to me those are side benefits. For me it is mainly about enjoying the pain.
(Actually, the spanking (especially the hard slaps) are a whole buffet of emotions; but pleasure is definitely one of them.)
At least that's the way it's been since adolescence. I have always enjoyed fantasizing about spankings (for as long as I can remember, anyways - well before grade 1), but I didn't actually enjoy receiving them till I tried spanking myself at 14.There is something else I get from spanking, but I don't know what. Most pleasures I can take or leave. I can do pleasurable activity "A" or I can do pleasurable activity "B" instead. Not so for spanking. If I go for a while without a spanking, I really crave it. In some ways, it seems like an addiction, but how could that be? The reason I tried spanking myself at 14 - my very first pleasure spanking - was because I was already craving it. Yet I don't know what the important need is that it is filling.
jan

kdarlin44 responded:
i can honestly say from the spankings, floggings etc, received, i do not enjoy the pain while receiving it....though i have been brought to orgasmn by it. i love the rush from it, the teasing and tormenting from talking about it beforehand, and when Master squeezes and scratches his nails over fresh welts afterwards. the threat of receiving more brings me to the brink of cumming. throbbing, sore nipples and clit...yes i need and crave it.

Marius_de_sade responded:
personally I feel that a sadist does not look for a masochist for the simple reason that most sadist do not want the one the are using to enjoy what is being done to them I find someimes for me at least it takes from what I am doing if I have to keep stepping up the play just to push that person to respond as I want them to bottom line for me at least is I hurt people cause I enjoy there pain and feed off it them also enjoying it at least in my personal play is nethier worried about or in most cases wanted just my opinon

MattNC responded:
@colosunshinegirl I don't understand this idea myself - why would I not seek a masochist? Masochists aren't immune to pain, they're just capable of enjoying it. Personally, the more obviously the other guy is into what I'm doing, the more turned on I get.
To me, being a sadist doesn't mean the other person's satisfaction kills my enjoyment - it just means it has to hurt as well.

warmwynter responded:
"Masochists aren't immune to pain, they're just capable of enjoying it." THIS. I love pain, it's pleasurable for me but it still hurts. I don't really push through it, I sort of fall into it. If that makes sense. I let myself feel every tiny detail of each stroke/hit/etc. and lose myself to the sensation. It does provide me with release (usually from tension) and a good session sort of centers me, gives me a clear head (after I come down that is). I mainly do it for pleasure though, there are other bonuses that come with it though. For me there's a lot of healing that goes on through pain. I can't really explain that as it would require some personal history, but it wasn't an intended benefit it just came with it.

Fleshlover responded:
That statement is about as stupid as they come. Internet doms and subs are bad enough, now we have internet sadist. There are no 2 better matches in the world than a Sadists to a Masochists. If I enjoy giving pain, I'm looking for someone who can take a lot of it because I enjoy giving it. If people only knew what they were talking about because they actually lived it, instead of pretending on the internet.

Leatherist responded:
I have an analogy too. We had a famous case here in washington state where a woman driving DRUNK, and tailgating a truck had her eyes taken out by an unfastened piece of plywood that flew off the back or a pickup truck. Came right through her window and nailed her.
Everyone else in the state now faces a thousand plus dollar fine if the get caught not fastening thier loads down properly. But did they make the same sort of law for drunken tailgaters? Nope. Seeing a trend here?

colosunshinegirl responded:
@Fleshlover - I had not thought of the concept of Internet Sadist. In my mind that would be an impossible condition. If someone via an internet conversation told me that I had to hurt myself, the only chance of that actually working would be if I were a Sadomasochist.
I would have to like hurting myself, and if I were capable of carrying both sides of the equation, why the heck would I need someone from Cyberville telling me what to do?
@MattNC - Up until the other day, this was my assumption. Two peas in a pod. Someone causes pain, another likes it, seems like a good match to me.
I have enjoyed all of the various viewpoints though, and it really has provided a very good picture into the world of pain and pleasure. So many shades of preference. Everyone, no matter their kink, is bound to find a match that works for them.

Leatherist responded:
I've had masochists who reacted to pian stimuli wih laughing and giggling and lots of orgasms. I think it confused me. I ended up feeling annoyed. I guess I'm just not wired that way.

kaya responded:
I think the term sadist has been watered down to fit for the purposes of discussion these days. Like so many other terms in bdsm, when applied to what we're all consensually doing with each other, they aren't held to most of their literal meanings.

Leatherist responded:
Shrugs, shades or grey are like unflavored topioca. A Slimy texture with very little to reccomend it.

colosunshinegirl responded:
For all of you that delight in the specificity brought about by definitions - here then is the definition of Sadism and Masochism, according to Merriam-Webster:
Sadism a sexual perversion in which gratification is obtained by the infliction of physical or mental pain on others (as on a love object) a: delight in cruelty b: excessive cruelty
Masochism 1 : a sexual perversion characterized by pleasure in being subjected to pain or humiliation especially by a love object 2 : pleasure in being abused or dominated : a taste for suffering
From the perspective of the definition, it matters not if the other party is enjoying themselves or not. I did find it interesting that they coupled the definitions with the inclusion that the other party be a love interest, lol.

kaya responded:
I can't find anything that specifies the consent or non-consent of the bottom making any difference, as long as the suffering is real.

valentinaSA responded:
What is the point of being a sadist if you cannot break limits with masochists? And what is the point of being a masochist if you cannot keep pushing limits by playing with a sadist? A combination of the two allows both to grow in their experiences.
Punishment is not necessarily pain. A masochist can be punished in other ways - bondage, standing in a corner, sucking on a dummy.. The ideas are endless!

Itami responded:
@Fleshlover
that post is about as stupid as they come. If a sadist enjoys the suffering of others and the masochist is enjoying/finding pleasure in what is done, then the masochist isn't really suffering, and in turn not satisfying the sadist. But then I guess someone would actually have to live this and not just pretend on the net to understand this....
I mean really......

synderella_99 responded:
i find myself in an odd place, not really a masochist or pain slut, maybe a pain bottom? All i can say for sure it that each time i crave more, harder...
and I love a good Service Top but nothing heats my blood like a genuine Sadist..maybe it is that edge thing..a good service Top can make You hurt but has a limit, and you know it...just say the word syn and you are safe..
a Sadist, You can be on your own really quickly and your screams will only heightened His arousal, not that He wouldnt stop on a safe word, but the very scream of that word at the top of your lungs, well expect to see a smile...
i tend to need a really strong Dominant to play with so even though i dont really classify myself as anything but a submissive, i will seek the Sadist...and i will love what He does...all the way to the last screaming REDDDDDD